This transcript is automatically generated so may contain errors.
Hello, this is one of our old episodes where are sound quality isn't quite so good. I'm a bit amateur.
Yeah, now we're pros and we've spoken about a lot more things and ohh sound quality is a lot better as you can hear currently.
Yes, so enjoy the show. Anyway, thank.
Welcome to the curiosity of a charred.
Episode 6 so this episode. I am going to be continuing the Storey of Sir Isaac Brock, our first guaranteed rates as we see what happens in the War of 1812 against America.
And I will be challenging my family to a Stone Age quiz.
Yes, that's right. I wonder who's going to win then? Will it be me, Granny, or Gramps?
Yeah, it's funny as well.
Okay, So what have you been?
Up to since last time anything interesting.
I have been ice skating.
We put our Christmas tree up, didn't.
We ohh yeah we put our Christmas tree Athens Sunday, yeah?
Yeah, I've got a kind of animal theme.
Yeah, we put pretty much all my teddies on the tree and stuff.
I think it's looking pretty good. Yeah I had my work Christmas party so that's why we recorded this a day late. As I was a little bit tired so she got on with the show then.
Yeah, let's get on with the show.
Sir Isaac Brock Part 2
yes. Thank you now can you remember where we left it last time on time?
We left it on a really good cliffhanger and it was the War of 1812.
Yes, it would. Just America just declared war on Canada.
Yeah Oh yeah. And they thought Canada would be really easy target, they could just March into it.
That's right, but Brock had been busy preparing their defences, hadn't he? Yeah.
So let's continue our Storey, shall we?
So what were the Americas just breaking out and calendar like he said is expected to be a phrase soft target Britain busy fighting in Europe against Napoleon.
So under the War of 1812, now do you know when that happened?
Exactly, yes please 1812.
Even ended 1812 May 1815.
So just turn that upside down.
Well yeah, yeah.
The Canadians or the British didn't have many troops, but remember they did control the Great Lakes. So whilst the army within these spread out, they could rapidly move it with their ships across the water and this can be very important.
Now one of the first actions of the war was when a small group of soldiers fur traders and First Nations Warriors led by Captain Charles Roberts, attacked the American Fort Mackinac. Now the defenders didn't even know that will have been declared yet.
So the Americans weren't aware of it, so they were taken by surprise and surrendered. Say this rapid, early victory encouraged the other First Nations people to join the British and the hyper pushing American settlers for their ancestral homelands.
On July the 12th William Hull. He was an American commander. He led an invasion, attacking a tangled sandwich which is today called Windsor. Now this lies over the River Detroit. The attack was quickly halted and this allowed Brock to start planning a counter offensive and he started to build a force at Amherstberg, which lies at the western tip of Lake Erie. And he's actually a map from the period. See, there's a Fort Detroit on the North of the River here. There's some wished on the bottom, which is the time that was attacked.
Rock reached Amherstburg on 13th of August and there he met a First Nations leader by the name of Tecumseh. Tecumseh dreamt of an independent American nation and had grown up during the American Revolutionary War, so he had a lot of experience of warfare. Any immediate impressed Brock? In fact, Brooks said of him, he was a man more sagacious and more. Gallant Warrior does not, I believe, exist.
Against the advice of its officers, Brock planned to attack Detroit.
Broken two battleships, 1300 soldiers and about 600 First Nations Warriors.
The Americans had a force of 2500 soldiers, and they were also in a fortified position across the River.
The conscious forces and British ships had been attacking whole supply lines, leaving them feeling demoralised and also shorten food. Had also learned that the Americans had lost confidence in their commander, and it seems that he was quite a timid figure.
And they also really, really feared the Native American Warriors, so the British arranged for a letter to accidentally fall into American hands and stated that no more Indians should be sent to Amherstburg as they were already 5000 there and supplies were running short. Remember, there's only 600, really. That's just to kind of play the psychological game.
Recourse isn't a letter asking for whole surrender, and this may have been before or after the seeds. That is about to happen. I'm not sure because different sources have this in a different order.
But his letter said.
The force of my disposal authorise me to require of you the immediate surrender of Forts Detroit. It is far from my inclination to join the War of extermination, but you must be aware that the numerous body of Indians who have attached themselves to my troops will be beyond my control. The moment a contest commences.
Say is playing on the fear that the Americans had tomatoes, thinking that they were going to butcher the American inhabitant of Detroit.
Brookland more tricks and ways to intimidate the American commander. Whole and one of these was he dressed his militia in the uniforms of regular troops, making his force of soldiers appear larger than it really wants. He then got to conscious men to March in front of the Fort, and then sneak back out of sight so that will confront a Fort. Then Hayden maybe go round the back of the head or something, and then March past again and he got them to do this several times that looked like they were more First Nations Warriors and they're really weather.
Yeah, that's funny.
Yeah, it's pretty clever and they also made sure that they weren't marching in a nice, order disciplined manner, but they're really loud and noisy, and it's all designed to terrify the American defenders.
And he also got into light more campfires than required, so rather than by a group of on a ten soldiers doing 1 fire there like 3 fires.
And they will spread out. So just made the force that much much bigger than us remembers. Got far fewer troops here, particularly trained soldiers.
Okay, so on the night of the 15th and 16th of August to conscious forces across the Detroit River and they were followed by Brock early in the morning.
Brooks Plan was to form his troops up for battle and draw Hull out of the Fort and into open battle, but then he heard of American troops to his rear, so you decided to attack immediately.
Now, as he always did, he led his troops in the front, urging the men forward, but facing the 224 pounder cannons that Gunners ready lit matches in their hands. They are ready to fire.
So let's hope it's windy so the match is about the Keeper lights.
While there's no need for that, because whole actually ordered them to stand down and raise the white flag of surrender, and this was against the advice of the other American officers, their whole were so terrified of the native Warriors in the I think his wife was in the town and his daughter or something.
Seriously scared for them as well.
And they surrendered. May have also been helped by the fact that a British shell exploded in the officers mess causing casualties around that same time as well.
Well, he asked for three days to agree. Town to this render. Brookhaven 3 hours.
I think that's probably because he didn't want to actually realise the true size of the army attacking, so we gotta get this sorted out quickly. And yeah, they surrendered. So with that defeat the main American army in the region was name or rocked the city and used the captured supplies to help reinforce the same men. And this is actually anytime that a city on the American mainland as ever been captured by an attacking force.
Scott, good. How many people do you think were killed in this battle?
And I think it's many.
Mother 2500 Americans
defending their being pounded by British guns and then we had. Was it 600 First Nations people and.
1300 soldiers for the British Militia.
I think it's going to be.
About 700 people die.
Take the 20 defend. Seven 787 people was obviously any deaths. Horrible, but it's pretty remarkable, isn't it? Yeah.
Yeah, so there only seven Americans were killed and two British Gunners got injured.
So that's actually Amazing Testament to block that you managed to take this forward with such minimal fighting, it's.
Incredible, you said earlier that a shell exploded.
In the best quarters, yes, that's.
Going to be something.
I don't know if that is all at the same time there, but I think that would be a couple of them. I don't have the exact breakdown.
The bad news continued for the American commander whole. He was court martialed and sentenced to death.
Sounds pretty harsh.
Well yeah, so he managed to survive to die.
Yeah, but President Madison reduced this to a dismissal from the Army in recognition of his service during the American Revolution, but that's how times have changed, like deserters and things would have been shot and he would have been shot for cowardice.
Now, this is a pretty bold move by Brock attacking that forehead on, and a lot of people without quite rationally, but Luckily his gamble paid off and he wanted to continue pushing into America, having control over much of the Mission territory.
But an arm assist between the two sides stop the momentum and allowed the Americans to regroup Forsbrook under the defensive. He didn't know where the Americans might attack, so he needed to prepare defences all over Upper Canada. And that leads us onto the Battle of Queenston Heights. During the morning of 13th of October, an American general named Steven Van Russelia the third attacked invading over the Niagara River. Now it wasn't a particularly experienced commander, and it wasn't trusted by the majority of his troops.
But despite this, I'm heavy artillery bombardment by the British. the American treats managed across the soldiers then follow the footpath up the Heights from which the British guns are firing a monster. Ouch them as a coincidence brokered. Also arrived a few minutes earlier at the top of this kind of rise of this Hill, who went to get a better view of the battlefield, but with the American forces there he was forced to retreat.
Not wanting anymore Americans to cross, he then led a quick counter attack, then he himself again leading the charge unfit.
It was sent. He always joined. His men never send them where he would not go himself.
Such pretty brave.
Leaving the line, particularly as they had like this, you can see in this picture he had let this sash on that had been given. He's got its officers uniforms can be a prime target there.
In a bit reminiscent of Alexander the Great, See always likes to lead from the front and he got injured a lot of times in battle.
And he's quite actions that rates level though.
And it's like no way. It's like if you get a boss battle, the boss might have a few minions, but the boss will always be in there.
So during the battle, the British Round a heavy fire and the member dropping back broke angry shouted. This is the first time I've ever seen the 49th turn their backs. Surely the heroes of arguments will not tarnish their records, says trying to regain his troops to storm forward this course demented push forward once more towards the American guns musket. Balls wishing and wishing through the air around them. Then one had broken the wrist of his sword arm, but he did not stop. Now have an extract from a letter written by a soldier which portrays the real horrors from the battle.
Yeah, so I think that Brock he he he can boost the morale of the at least the train soldiers anyway, but he can keep the morale up for his army.
Yeah, he was popular among the soldiers. It said Okay, so here's the lesser general. Brock rushed up the mountain on foot with some troops to dislodge them.
But they were so advanced, Lee posted and kept up so tremendous of fire that the small number ascending were driven back. The general then rallied and was proceeding up the right of the mountain to attack them in the flank. When he received a bull to his breast, several the 49th assembled around him. One poor fellow was severed in the middle by ball and fully across the general. They succeeded, however, in conveying his body to Queenston, just at this instance we came up were halted. 13 few moments Mr Hamilton's garden.
When we were exposed to the shot from the American battery at Fort Grey and from several pieces directly opposite us, besides the incessant disorderly fire of the musketry from the size of the Mount and one of our men had his leg shot off in the ranks by cannibal, which carried away the car for another poor fellows leg.
In a few minutes we were ordered to advance to the Mount and the nature of the ground and the building fire prevented any kind of order. In ascending, it's pretty horrific. There imagine.
Who these guns fire in the smoke billowing up cannon fire. And did you hear what happened to Brock there?
In the middle of that.
Yes, shot in the chest. Yeah hitting his heart.
It says that as he fell, he called out push on brave York volunteers or perhaps said Bush on disappointed me. Just great British yeah.
He didn't want his being shot to delay the advance.
And this is actually what he was wearing at the time, and we look up circle the bullet hole right in the middle there.
Yeah, that's actually that's clear whole asking right through yes.
In all reality, but he died instantly, but I prefer to think that he cried out before his death, still pushing him forward.
There is only 43 years old.
After his death, the British tried a second attack, the Cemetery to 18 men charging the now entrenched American force numbering up to 400 men. Their battle cry was revenge Thegeneral
They did push the Americans back towards the Gorge, but then they were defeated again and had to pull back themselves. However, the British would ultimately be.
Victorious in the battle.
And we got Colonel need statements. Now he was an American commander.
Although I'd lost is great and the issue truly unfortunate, the enemy have no reason to based of their advantage to them. It is a victory which will be remembered with pain. Major General Brock, an experienced and brave leader, was slain in the early part of the action. the British acknowledged that his death, but more serious than would have been the loss of 1000 of the rank.
They have no commander in the Canadas, you can.
Fill his place.
So he's saying that losing 1000 soldiers would be better than losing Brock, since that much of an inspirational leader to them. And they have no replacement.
So breakfast buried on the 16th of October 1812. They were 5000 people turning up for his funeral and was given a 21 gun salute. Then later that same day and nearby American Fort also fired. A salute shows the respect that.
They had for him.
So these are Brooks possessions at this time of death. Okay, so we got Silver, four to come to stands to French candlestick's wineglasses carving knives are wine cooler, another decanter, two dozen tablespoons.
Somebody just silver. Then we've got placed it. We got a taste track, fish knife, 6 salt spoons. Mordecai understands more. French candle, small N glasses carving knife's 17 teaspoons.
A pair of sugar tongs, one butter knife, blue Chinese got 12 baking dishes for vegetable dishes, fruit dishes, dinner plates, cheese based dessert plates, light blue China, more dinner plates, sugar plates, vegetable dishes.
Read shiver sources. Cops are bread baskets.
Two Jelly modes.
Wine 2 bottles of rum, 1 barrel of port wine is please sweet wine. Clarisse gin how importer is got gridirons ladles milk churns tablecloths three dozen napkins.
Its furnishings, he's got dining room, carpet I think my chest of drawers. Yeah pillows and pillow cases. One boxes tape, two dozen chairs and one black Walnut table.
Had three horses. He had a slight and then remember we mentioned his library of books last time so this is some of those who got Samuel Johnson's works, Shakespeare's Rowling's agent history, the Pope's works. Johnson's dictionary, Maurice drama and exercises Voltaire. Volumes of plays.
I guess the dictionary was for American then.
Map of loads of England so that some of his possessions there, yeah, okay, so we look at its legacy. So as you know, he was called the Hero of Upper Canada and he is regarded as one of the nation's great military heroes. There's also voted the 28th graders Canadian of all time on a 2004 TV show. Now I couldn't find the entire list of everybody, but I did see that in 10th place was a ice hockey player. Probably the most impressive things. Brooks monument. Now this is a 56 metre tall.
184 feet column. Now this is bigger than Nelson's column in London, say only 51 and a half metres tall.
And you know the Alexander Column in Saint Petersburg by the Hermitage. Yeah, that is 47.5 metres tall. It's bigger than both of those. Yeah massive, it's really big.
Yeah, we've got a picture of it. Yes, humongous.
Yes, you can see this Calvin. It's amazing, isn't it? Now this is actually the second room that was built to be those one before, which is a little bit smaller, but it's damaged by an explosion in April 1840 by an anti British group. So how do you answer such attacks? You just make something even bigger.
Oh, and I was also struck by lightning in 1929, but when it's a tool
Is also nearby monuments to Tecumseh. Now do you want to guess how big it is?
Leaders. Who is it big or smaller? Smaller okay, 17 metres to.
My pants less than a metre big. He should be remembered as well because he was really important leaders. He managed to gather together a lot of the native tribes in the area into a Confederation and he was desperate. Just give them a home and so I think it's sad that he's not remember better.
Yet it really like actually.
Okay, so how close is he remembered? Well, there's loads of roads and towns named after him, including Brockville, where my work colleague said his mother lived, I think, but this is during the Christmas party. After a few hours, so I remember is a little bit vague because he's half Canadian.
There are also lots of schools, and of course, Brock University. Here's a statue.
You can see the detail is books and his chest of.
Drawers, actually, that is, it just draws, isn't it? Yeah, and some sort of ceremonial sword and then his hat that there's a scholarship for students from Guernsey. So if you ever want to study in Canada for a bit
well, we looked at them. We found a cool insect website and there loads of big spiders, so we ended up not wanting to go there in the end.
2012 A .99999% pure gold coin by $350.00 was minted to commemorate the BI centenary of his death, so almost totally pure gold. Yeah, I'm quite happy I think.
There is this tiny weeny bit of imperfection. I know it's in Terrell it got shipped off.
Who will know you don't do that? You get in trouble for us. I convert school where people would cut off the edges of Queens.
Silver instantly and then you say.
You've got like 5 P or the.
Other Greaves run edge yeah.
To make other coins.
Yeah they would melt them down and make other greens, yeah?
And then of course we have to say, arise, Sir Brock, for he was knighted. Unfortunately, he never got to know this honour, as his kill before the dispatch reached him.
I just got night is.
Then in London there's a memorial in Saint Paul's Cathedral.
He also had a ship named after him.
Amaral Navy ship, but that was destroyed before it's finished.
It's been unfortunate there's some autism barracks named after it in in England. Then in Guernsey we didn't really have as much remembering by here, but remember he did leave the island. There's only 10 years old, but with their RT plaques revisited and we've got a short recording now you're innocent. Peter, in the heart of the town outside where some ties it broadcast live, and he was up to the age of 10. Disney, yeah, can you describe the building?
But it's quite posh and its speed yet grey, and it's really cool. It's got lots of symmetrical windows. Yeah, I like.
That house isn't it, and it's actually now boots. Yeah, that's rather random right in the heart of the High Street. I mean, this is prime location here. Yeah, probably that must be won. the Premier kind of houses, properties Peter port surgery, the nothing quite high up yourself.
A plaque in reading this.
Major General Sir Isaac Brock, KB, who saved Canada or the Empire, lived here born in 1769, killed Action 1812.
Okay, now we're going on the high streets where there's another plaque.
We are now outside the town church where there's another Platt Katie cited Brock.
So it's saying how he got into the 49th Regiment, like we went over before and yeah, and how he?
He served in Europe between 1799 and 1881 and the following year was placed into Canada.
And then just how prior to the outbreak of the War of 1812, he became the President of the Executive Council, an administrator to Upper Canada so erected by the Archaeological Historic Site Sport Department, the public records of the Archive of Ontario. So it's actually that plaque is thanks to you, Canadians wanting it there. Yeah yeah, Okay, so it's actually a lovely day here so we're gonna go for little wonder back at the High Street, yeah?
Okay, so that was us visiting the two packs.
Okay, so we're mostly done in Brock now, but who do you think won the?
War of 1812, British Canada.
British Canada. Okay, well, both the British and Americans say they want.
Yeah, so I haven't obviously gone over the entire war. He went on for few years now the British say America failed to win their war aims, so they wanted to force the British to lift their trade restrictions. Please remember in part one we spoke about how the Royal Navy bullying them, but they didn't manage to do this. So the British say that Babe one now America, they think they want because they actually were victorious in some of the largest battles of the war, such as the Battle of New Orleans, where they repelled a massive British invasion.
Which is that's being planned and taking American territory. So the British were thinking, well, master at war we might get a bit more land for the Empire, will get some of them back. They also defeated to conscious Confederacy. He was the commander, the First Nations people wasn T he had helped block out so bravely.
Despite his tiny memorial.
And with his defeat, the Americans claimed more of the First Nations territories. So whilst there may be no real clear winner.
There is 1 clear loser and that's the native people. It's rather sad, isn't it? Yeah.
Anyway, So what do you think of cited Brock? And I think it's gonna be a tough act to follow.
Maybe we could rate their own secrets. The different things I would rate them on is epicness. Probably as in like how cool is thing was intelligence.
Hill and legacy. Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so how Epic was a?
He was pretty cool. I'll probably give him a 9.
Yeah, it's a pretty bold commander leading from the front.
Shouting to keep his troops moving forwards? Yeah, yeah.
What about what's next on intelligence intelligence?
She did seem pretty tactical, so I'll probably give him a self and for that.
Yeah yeah, maybe sort of military intelligence so don't know if he was not actually. I didn't really go into his so it was civilian side of his career, but when he was the commander of the Upper Canada, he also had a civilian as well as military position, so he was happy quite astute politically.
And think how he improved the defences and really got the.
Infrastructure set up for defending Canada.
Yeah, and in part one you mentioned he was a good student and very clever at school. Yeah, he wasn't very well shooters.
Next one I think will do.
Will do epicness, intelligence and legacy legacy. Yes, so legacy.
Well, he did have a pretty big funeral.
Into his monumental Scott Universe is named after the 24th Greatest Canadian History.
The 20 somethings.
Most popular Canadian ever.
Okay, so for that I will probably give him another 9.
Yeah, I think he's actually.
Got a pretty good legacy there, yeah?
I gave way some of the things I've read suggest maybe wasn't all that trusting of the.
Natives people at the native people.
Wait, does he have a real genuine respect for Tecumseh?
It was, he seemed very popular with his men.
And he was a skilled politician as well as a military commander.
To quote from a biography called The Astonishing General, The Life and Legacy of Sir Isaac Brock.
Whether he was dealing with the natives or the public, or even the rank and file soldiers he had this ability to step outside of his class. That was very rare for British generals. Everyone really seemed to enjoy his company.
I don't think that's kind of a nice way to remember him, yeah?
Ultimately, his bold actions helped change the war. As calendar was seen as very weak when he gave them hope. the American Army was made up to 10 times larger than his, but through early planning and clever tactics, he wants a major victories, often with very little loss of life. That's gonna be really commended, however. It was to be the same bold actions that ultimately led to his own death.
And it's broke.
Yeah, I actually really enjoyed doing and see great Summer show. Will get some good ones. So if we had up his score that be 9 + 918 seven 25.
You've got the maths right this time, so it's not me doing it.
Stone Age quiz. Okay, so we've gone live to Granny and Gramps house to test. Granny Gramps is and Daddy's knowledge about the Stone Age in this brilliant quiz that we've come up with.
Welcome to the stage with your host Antar.
Hi, thank you for joining us and that's test star contestants on what they know about Stone Age. Let's introduce some daddy.
Hi, I'm daddy. I'm the youngest contestant so I think I might know as much as the others are. My buzzer sound is log.
Ronnie hello, I'm Granny and my buzzer sound is Eve.
Crap solo on gramps. I was actually born in the Stone Age. My buzzer is rock question one.
Who excavated lvd dolmen?
Something called Lucas like can't think of his Christian name.
That's close enough, yeah? So the answer was FC Lucas, but Lucas is good, so Gramps 1.2 years.
When did Guernsey become an island? A 10,000 BCE B7000BC or C4000BC?
that's the correct answer. One points to daddy.
What helped preserve the billions of bodies buried in dominance?
See, I'm going to guess. I think it's because the soil was not acidic, it was alkaline, and it was dry. Gotta guess seashells.
Yeah, that is correct that she limpet shells, but yeah, so another points to Gramps.
Trofeos guns he has no natural flints deposits it.
No they don't.
Correct, that's now a point too funny.
Which of these did Spanish people eat? A seeds and grains the meats see berries.
Oh, right, well, I think they use all of those items, correct?
About now, the third points to Gramps.
True or force fairies? Looks like rule fair, the fairy caves.
And a bit unlucky there.
I jumped in a bit quick there.
Okay, so the youngest contestant is now lost.
Where did the big stones cover come from for Stonehenge?
Okay, that's daddy.
I believe they came from Wales.
Congratulations, so that means the halfway point. Gramps is winning with three points and Grammy are level pegging behind with two points each.
Love that dinosaurs around in the stage.
That's the wrong answer afraid.
yeah, but that's not really a Dinosaur.
Bobby Boo snow they dinosaurs around.
And wiped out long time before.
Did they make bronze tools and weapons in the Stone Age?
gramps. No, they didn't.
Very age yeah. It was a very hard question.
No gonna say not bronze but they did make weapons.
How many carriages is soonish divided into a 5B1C3?
Rock Gramps 3
Yes, that's the right answer. The Early Stone Age is no sleep, a lipstick. The Middle Stone Age is the Mesolithic and the new Stone Age is the near lithic.
Where mum is hunted to extinction and by humans.
I believe the most recent research shows that they were the primary factor in the extinction of mammoths. Actually, there's a cave in Jersey.
In the South of the island, it's not even. It was the coast, but 7000 years ago it will say, well, maybe less than that. It was used by in the end of house, so not quite humans and they hunters mammoth there there would be overlooking brass bands at the time.
Simple words please.
Was that right?
I said simple words, yes, congratulations.
Question 12, in which stolen is there a face carved into the third capstone?
Granite is fonts.
I'll give you that. It's just the transition day. You don't say yeah today.
Thank you question 13.
People they would stay in houses.
Congratulations also lived in caves. Yeah, they live in caves and lots of different houses. So actually three other types. One of them was Watson door which is like not so animal parents stuff but the other one was words.
And the last one with animal skins like a teepee.
What did they use for cave paintings? A animal blood be berries. See charcoal or D dirt.
Ohh cramps, I think again they use all those different lightings in.
So anyone else crops at 1 Oak Daddy?
I think the dirt would wash off, so I think they were definitely use animal blood and berries by reckon there's probably some evidence of charcoal being used at some point as well, so we've been burning things in the caves.
Yeah, probably charcoal, but definitely animal blood and Barry's, so that's.
That's actually putting Daddy into the least pushing past.
Cramps with Granny slowly trailing behind with three points.
Where did humans evolve from Big Brother?
I would like a more exact.
Please final question. You also get five points as well.
This is a little bit of a guess. It was definitely in Africa and I'm going to say Ethiopia.
I'm quite Oak.
Buddy, I believe it is very near the South Africa in the country Botswana.
Congratulations, you have got even further in the lead and you have won the entire game.
Was my price.
Thank you for joining us and I hope you enjoy this lovely radio show goodbye.
How how come see you next time?
That's awful, sorry.
Ho ho ho this is Ian I home.
I cannot. Even worse, let's cut this now.